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	<title>Comments on: Democratically disenfranchised</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bornagainskeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bornagainskeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/</link>
	<description>choice. understanding. perspective.</description>
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		<title>By: BaS</title>
		<link>http://www.bornagainskeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>BaS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.BornAgainSkeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Your example, and the &quot;In God we Trust&quot; on money, are more a question of violating the establishment clause I think.  I&#039;m not sure that government-produced things such as money and pledges are considered to be a forum for free speech..

Your knowledge of case law here (some) is probably greater than mine (very little) so I won&#039;t debate where on which way individual cases have gone.  If they are being judged more &quot;right&quot; than wrong in the US, then huzzah; one thing less to worry about in that locality.

Now should we talk about how creationists are trying to turn school classrooms into a free speech issue?  I may make a post about that in the future anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your example, and the &#8220;In God we Trust&#8221; on money, are more a question of violating the establishment clause I think.  I&#8217;m not sure that government-produced things such as money and pledges are considered to be a forum for free speech..</p>
<p>Your knowledge of case law here (some) is probably greater than mine (very little) so I won&#8217;t debate where on which way individual cases have gone.  If they are being judged more &#8220;right&#8221; than wrong in the US, then huzzah; one thing less to worry about in that locality.</p>
<p>Now should we talk about how creationists are trying to turn school classrooms into a free speech issue?  I may make a post about that in the future anyway.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Vargas</title>
		<link>http://www.bornagainskeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Vargas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.BornAgainSkeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Again, I&#039;m not so sure that&#039;s a good example.  Defamation and libel laws, at least in the United States, are quite strictly interpreted to balance equitably the freedom of the individual to speak against the unfair harm that speech can do - and my understanding is that the history of those laws in our country falls pretty squarely on the side of free speech more often than not.

A better example might be the majority enshrining certain speech above others, despite its clear conflict with other inalienable rights.  &quot;In God We Trust&quot; comes to mind, or the &quot;under God&quot; portion of the Pledge of Allegiance.

In any event, I&#039;m just being petty.  Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, I&#8217;m not so sure that&#8217;s a good example.  Defamation and libel laws, at least in the United States, are quite strictly interpreted to balance equitably the freedom of the individual to speak against the unfair harm that speech can do &#8211; and my understanding is that the history of those laws in our country falls pretty squarely on the side of free speech more often than not.</p>
<p>A better example might be the majority enshrining certain speech above others, despite its clear conflict with other inalienable rights.  &#8220;In God We Trust&#8221; comes to mind, or the &#8220;under God&#8221; portion of the Pledge of Allegiance.</p>
<p>In any event, I&#8217;m just being petty.  Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: BaS</title>
		<link>http://www.bornagainskeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>BaS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.BornAgainSkeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/#comment-4</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re probably correct. I didn&#039;t do my own research on this and I&#039;m not a lawyer either.  

Let&#039;s replace the example with defamation, or other exception to free speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re probably correct. I didn&#8217;t do my own research on this and I&#8217;m not a lawyer either.  </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s replace the example with defamation, or other exception to free speech.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Vargas</title>
		<link>http://www.bornagainskeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Vargas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.BornAgainSkeptic.net/2008/03/15/democratically-disenfranchised/#comment-3</guid>
		<description>My understanding is such, but I am not a lawyer.  Please correct me if I&#039;m wrong:

Hateful speech is still protected by the First Amendment, but not if it incites violence.  That same standard is applied to speech of any form.  The qualifier &quot;hate&quot; does however make a difference when prosecuting crimes proceeding from that speech - that is, the punishment is more severe.

For example, the KKK and the neo-Nazis are permitted to assemble, stump, publish, distribute, and otherwise express their views that anyone without white skin is inferior to them.  However, the punishment against them if violence occurs is greater.  Thought it might chill their speech somewhat, it seems quite reasonable to me because the characteristic of that speech is to incite such violence, and history has shown that it has been successful at it.  Thus, it provides an incentive for them to be more careful about what they say, because it can so easily lead to other problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is such, but I am not a lawyer.  Please correct me if I&#8217;m wrong:</p>
<p>Hateful speech is still protected by the First Amendment, but not if it incites violence.  That same standard is applied to speech of any form.  The qualifier &#8220;hate&#8221; does however make a difference when prosecuting crimes proceeding from that speech &#8211; that is, the punishment is more severe.</p>
<p>For example, the KKK and the neo-Nazis are permitted to assemble, stump, publish, distribute, and otherwise express their views that anyone without white skin is inferior to them.  However, the punishment against them if violence occurs is greater.  Thought it might chill their speech somewhat, it seems quite reasonable to me because the characteristic of that speech is to incite such violence, and history has shown that it has been successful at it.  Thus, it provides an incentive for them to be more careful about what they say, because it can so easily lead to other problems.</p>
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